ReMythed Interview with Bet’n Lev
While queer representation is becoming more common in media these days, it is often still far too rare to find productions that put queer joy not just front and center of their productions, but in every aspect of them. Bet’n Lev theatre seeks to remedy this. Reflecting co-Artistic Directors Roann Hassani McCloskey (they/she) and Joel Samuels (he/him), have brought their debut production Remythed a long way from its premiere at the 2023 VAULT festival, touring it around the UK to critical acclaim.
Created in response to queer people’s erasure from ancient history, Remythed reimagines and retells the stories of famous and forgotten LGBTQIA+ figures from the past, reshaping what queer history could look like and putting queer joy in the front and centre of the narrative. Five actors play more than 30 characters, including Sheherazade and Lady Godiva, blending their own stories and cultures with the lives of these myths and legends. Rejecting typical painful representations of queer history, the show tells uplifting and feel-good stories of friendship, humility and finding love and community, allowing audiences to envision queer history in a new light.
Ahead of their penultimate performance at the Tobacco Factory theatre in Bristol, I was lucky enough to catch a few minutes with Roann and Joel to ask them about their inspirations for Remythed, what stories were left on the cutting room floor, and what might be next for Bet’n Lev theatre.
These stories are incredibly personal to each of you, as you’ve stated at the end of the show. Were there any other stories, folktales, or myths you considered adapting as opposed to the ones that made the final cut?
Roann: The story that first comes to mind is that of Sarah and Abraham. That was the first story that gave me the concept of ‘I don’t like what it’s told us, what can we do with this instead?’.
Joel: What happens in the original myth?
R: Abraham is married to Sarah, Sarah is much older than him, so God was like ‘can you please sacrifice yourself so he can find another woman (Hagar) who can give him children’. And Abraham then fathers Ishmael and Isaac. But what I wanted to do instead was make it so that it’s Sarah and Hagar who are a couple, and Abraham is in fact their sperm donor. Sarah is not barren, and the primary conflict is which of [them] carries and who doesn’t.
J: Because we have such a variety of backgrounds in our team, there was always the sense that we could go as we wanted. Of course as artistic directors there were strong ideas around muslim and jewish stories we wanted to tell, but the opportunity to rewrite and reframe history through stories in general means the world to us. If you want to say ‘we’ve always been here, and we’re not going anywhere’, every story becomes an opportunity. So in that sense you can flip the original question around; there’s never been a story we’ve looked at and gone ‘no, not that one’.
I find that one of the great strengths of your show is that you’re telling stories from so many different backgrounds. Speaking as someone with a white ethnicity, we don’t usually get told stories from cultures that are not our own.
J: That’s the interesting thing with the Syrian-Mespotamian myth, with the character of Silimabzuta who is a non-binary emperor on a journey to find themselves. The gods that exist in that story, Ishtar and Innana, is a real dual-headed male/female deity from Mesopotamian-Syrian history that they pray to. But also with the Akhan myth, where we created this character of Danszo who meets 2 African deities: Anansi and Ori. It was an opportunity to take such important parts of both those cultures, nd then go back to before a lot of the modern world’s take of them became popular and say ‘well actually, this isn’t a reframing of history, this is us making the story based on something that was already there. And you're right, nobody knows that. There’s so little understanding, especially in terms of where we are politically now. Gender has always been a spectrum that people play with, and it's only in the last few hundred years that that's kind of been shut down. And so for us we’d like people to know about cultures beyond themselves, but in knowing those cultures have a look at our own culture and go ‘why can’t we have a bit of that?’.
Are there additional stories you’d put in or changes you’d make if you had an unlimited budget?
R: I don’t even know how to answer that!
J: There’s a lot from 1001 Nights that we’ve simplified.
R: Basically every story ever told. I’ve always imagined what it would look like if we had a chorus of dancers, special effects, costumes, set…
J: Sinbad the sailor with a full budget.
R: Ohh, gay pirates!
J: Gay Arab pirates is something that would be a big old opportunity if we had the money. But at the same time… We often talk about how the show could be upscaled, there’s various different futures for it, but I think the thing we always want to try and retain is the importance of story. It’s kind of a bit old hat and British to talk about, but if you can do it simply you can add the bells and whistles afterwards.
I’ve seen a lot of fringe shows recently going from small budgets and a small cast all the way to the West End. And while their production value has increased, at the end of the day it’s still just a bunch of people playing different characters just with a different hat on.
R: Exactly. I think if we did scale it up we’d have to do a lot of reworking on the show because of the simplicity and the rawness of it. I wouldn't want to just add a load of extra stuff on. We’d have to ask the question of ‘what’s its next iteration evolvement?’.
J: I’ve always had this dream of video-mapping for the story of Danszo. Where, , when he enters this bar where he’s been led by this god, and he sees all these people who are people and animals at the same time, you could see the people and their animal silhouette projected around them. So yes, we’d add extra stories if we had unlimited budget, but we’d also revisit what we’ve got and ask ‘what else could we do?’. We’re in love with these stories and the simplistic way of telling them, and if you’re in love with something you should be wanting it to grow!
With the production as it is, are there any details in it that you both personally love, but that the audience might not have picked up on?
R: Oh my god, so many! So, so many!
J: There’s a lot of moments that are sticking in my head. There’s a lot of things incorporated just for- Well, they’re done for the story, and maybe one or two people clock them, but they’re also for us. But for example, when I introduce Luce [Roslyn], who plays Lily in the first story, and I introduce them as ‘Lily’, and they say ‘No, my name is Luce’, and I say ‘Thank you’. And again later, when I call them Lilith, and they correct me in-character. saying ‘No, my name is Lily’, and I again say ‘thank you’. This is partly important because Luce is a non-binary actor who is reclaiming their name and themselves, and they’re playing a non-binary character who is reclaiming their name and themselves. This is something the audience would often miss, and that’s fine, because there’s also such joy for us in moments like that, because we’ve put a lot of time and effort into things like that over the last 2 years.
R: As well, any time anyone gets corrected, we say ‘thank you’. What we’re saying in that, for ourselves and for anyone who’s watching, is to see [that correction] as a gift, rather than responding with ‘how dare you’ or ‘I’m so sorry’. So that’s a big one. Another one is in the story where Ishmael [Kirby] plays Silimabzuta and I play their cousin Tauta, and they do a thing with the coffee where they spit it in my face, and I don’t know if anyone’s clocked that-
J: I’ve never clocked that.
R: We just used to play with that so much. There’s also a thing he does with his hands where he channels electricity and I actually feel that electricity go out of his hands, and there was a point where he was huffing a pomegranate… But I think that’s gone from the show now. I’m certain that was not clocked, but it was very enjoyable.
J: We’ve taken a lot from planting things we enjoy. And one of the big pieces of feedback we get from the show is that they enjoy the joy we have from doing the show, and part of that comes from these little interactions, and these little moments. For example, early on in the show, Sheherazde/Roann wakes up from a dream singing Taylor Swift, with the explanation being it’s the underscore to her dream. And then an hour later, near the end of the play, when Danszo’s character - who is black and gay - finds himself in a very white gay bar, that same Taylor Swift song is playing.
R: Maybe half of the audience are like ‘finally, payoff!” And the other half are like ‘what are you laughing at?’.
J: Hour-long payoff for explaining why you were singing Taylor Swift.
Finally, once the story of Remythed is over - whenever that may be - what future queer stories would you want to work on?
R: Joel and I have already written what I think will be the next play out of Bet’n Lev, which goes into development this autumn. It’s currently called ‘In Another Life’. There are also a few other potential projects that are bubbling. Perhaps a 17th century musical?
J: Say a bit about the character in the 17th century musical.
R: There is this great aristocratic character who basically was queer, and she basically was like the Kim Kardashian of the 17th century, but fun and gay. She was all around Paris, and Italy, and London, she was a mistress of King Charles… a very fun backdrop for a very fun musical that we hopefully can begin working on.
J: ‘In Another Life’ has its heart very much reflected in the company. It focuses on a queer engagement between the son of a muslim family and the son of a jewish family. So we’ve got 2 new queer ideas: one very modern, and one where we’re reaching back into the past again. Those are the two post-Remythed projects for the company.